- paragraph added at 23:02 + amended at 23:09, 30 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.180.238 and at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Engine power indications were virtually unchanged until about 9 seconds Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos On the other hand, it had developed a reputation among passengers and the media due to its string of high profile incidents. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." Our guests praise the breakfast and the helpful staff in . Most of the public is or was under the impression that safety would never be negatively impacted by sweeping "free market" legislation. The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. The same sort of conditions facing Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh in Mexico City in '79: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09/requiem-trijet-masterpiece-lockheed-l-1011-tristar/tristar-can-land-itself/, - section created at 21:25, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230, George B. Parker, Associate Professor of Safety Institute of Safety and Systems Management University of Southern California contributed the following paper to the "Proceedings of the Twelfth International Seminar of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators" which was a conference (?) I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. 1 / 3. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Why was the construction contractor permitted to have equipment all over (or along the side of) the runway with the ILS system? I denoised the CVR so you can hear the voices better. The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Quote copyedited at 21:28, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230: All of these accidents had some common human factors involvement. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. On October 31, 1979, at 5:42 a.m. CST, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City International Airport in fog, after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Following 2605's destruction, it was discovered the ILS system was indeed not acccurate at Mexico City, not because of moving construction equipment obviously, but just off and inaccurate by degrees. Privacy Policy. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. The sad thing about this accident is that not one of Western Airlines Flight 2605 received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. Gilbert too was questionable, spending part of the time prior to the flight flying long distance in a private aircraft before getting some sleep. Mark Lincoln (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Spanish language page of Wikipedia cites the other runway, not 23L. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. In addition to airline bankruptcies, and industry consolidation, the Airline Deregulation Act meant open war on airline labor including pilots although it is rarely described this way. Posts: 6938 . Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, 20 minutes before the accident a 727 from Mexicana airlines landed normally on 23R using the "same procedure which the Western aircraft was instructed to follow". 68 people died in that crash. The L1011 was a more costly plane but generally regarded as a better designed aircraft in many ways. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. Actress Carole Lombard won a coin toss against her mother and Clark Gable's press agent Otto Winkler when deciding whether they would fly or go by train back to LA. explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. Privacy Policy. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets I would think so. . - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. All times are GMT. The May 25, 1979 American Airlines DC-10 crash involved the separation of the left engine from the left wing and the shredding of hydraulic lines with it. It ought to be (if at all possible). Lombard wanted to fly. The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. None of these higher authorities performed as required by law and regulation to make sure the buck stopped sooner. Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. In that accident investigators warned of the danger of trusting ILS signals without checking raw height/distance data. Our large helicopter section. Other entries are my opinions as well. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. LAST WORDS SAIF BY FIRST OFFICER: BRACE CHARLES! However it is the content of the article that readers should focus on. However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft Acheter. A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. 68 people died in that crash. There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". involved in all four, contributing to two accidents as deter Flight 2605 didn't just land on the wrong runway, it landed in the grass to the left of the runway and the ILS system could be why because no one was watching data gauges (dials?) Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. A part of the CVR is widely available online. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. France (Isre, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes): Current local time in & Next time change in Saint-Ismier, Time Zone Europe/Paris (UTC+1). The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. Its pilots loved the plane. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships To be continued.. - paragraph added at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, - section created by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019 (+ heading amended by 173.120.246.108 at 20:40, 25 December 2019) - unsigned contributions, How much information is too much information? I'd like to reply to yours as well. - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux 31 views Aug 23, 2022 Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles,. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Consider joining here from 1 per month: https://www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdownTwitter: https://twitter.com/Chloe_HowieCBMusic/Personal Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwQGtbF_x7ODL1U_A61IQgTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/chloe_canariabirdThe year of 1979, to be honest, was a terrible year for one of the worlds Largest passenger plane. Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. The CVR has been widely available for years. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? The violent crashing is clearly heard. Was it likely that they didn't have the resources to take safety in to account? port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air (The paper is easy to source online). - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) Presumably the "Flying Magazine" article abridged content from 'official' reports and other sources. This is incorrect information from the control tower at Mexico City (assuming the ICAO circular Section 1.8.2 is accurate). He was concerned about their work and "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. I'd like to reply to yours as well. to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary As a survivor of a deadly, violent, burning breakup of an aircraft he's had a number of life challenges since but has emerged over time as a lucid, grateful and reflective artist who, probably like most people, wonders why such a senseless tragedy had to occur in the first place. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident. The Originals Boutique, Htel Les Trois Roses, Grenoble Meyla. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships My dad has mentioned to me several times this accident. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. 7 years ago (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. 1.5K. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". This penetration came in contact with the erasure circuit sending a momentary electrical impulse to the bulk eraser, causing a wedge- shaped segment of the tape to be erased.". I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad. The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". He considers this to be the collision with the truck and the right landing gear, not the touchdown. 1 mois de voyages illimits. Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut. I can't guess why it would be hard to obtain. Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. I have cleaned up the background. Wow!! with his crew that he had requested several times to have By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. . Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. accident had to be one of human factors. It should be mentioned (perhaps in the main article) that if 2605 had somehow landed "properly" on the "wrong" runway 23L, the accident probably wouldn't have happened. This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. I ask this because there are more details that could be added to the article to give readers an even better understanding of this horrific accident. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. He has suggested an international cover up. Mexico and the US both consider tourism to be critically important. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. More importantly pilot errors occured. The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. long work days or from shift changes. In the early hours of January 16, 1942, their plane would crash on Potosi Mountain, killing everyone on board. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Discover your dream home among our modern houses, penthouses and. A well known problem is the potential for erroneous glideslope and/or localizer indications caused by movement of aircraft or equipment through ILS critical areas. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Here are some ideas: - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:22, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, Lay readers still have no idea what a "more than 2g force landing" means. (any of them?) He was defending his company by blaming the pilots. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had Include these with the other problems he would Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Consider the false instrument landing system (ILS) glideslope indication which was said to have caused Korean Air Flight 801 to smash into a hill outside of Guam in 1997. But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." All Rights Reserved. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/09/16/DC-10-fleet-to-undergo-hydraulic-system-changes, https://www.designnews.com/aerospace/designed-disaster-dc-10-airliner-part-4, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/08/04/engineer-balks-at-changes-in-critical-dc10-systems, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10, https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.153.142.87 (talk) 00:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply].

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