Product #: 417076. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. 300blk subs are POINTLESS to run without a can, they're still loud, less effective and unreliable, with a can yes they are super quiet and badass. Required fields are marked *. Check out my Youtube Channel, TWANGnBANG. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Here is a great example of shooting 300 Blackout suppressed and unsuppressed using supersonic and subsonic ammo from Class 3 Ordnance. Most subsonic blackout ammo uses a bullet in the 200-grain range, and, of course, .308 diameter. Just a bit about the whole defensive rifle debate: some say something like 5.56 is not a good choice for home defense. 300 Blackout offers a range of performance, in both supersonic and subsonic loadings. NmYzMzU2MjU0YmYzZjg4NDg1MTU4MWE0NDc4ZWUyODcyZTAwNjVhMmQxMjcy I now am thinking it could be dwell time. Theres a time and place for both technologies and you should practice/zero with both types. One of .300 Blackouts greatest edge is the seamless ability for rifles chambered in this caliber to efficiently transition between subsonic ammo and supersonic ammo. NTM5OTc1MGMzYzdhYTJiZGM5NmZjOGU0NWNhYjI0NDhjZjc5NWJjYWIxOThm On the other hand, supersonic offerings, when combined with suppression, will still conceal ones position and affords longer range lethality due to flatter shooting, lower weight bullets. font-weight: 400; Btw: Supersonic ammo is also a really bad idea because of the VERY loud report and large muzzle flash. Due to the higher velocity, you will encounter much louder report regardless of a suppressor, due to the supersonic crack of the bullet. I don't have a single SA rifle of any kind, so all I do is read other peoples post about any SA rifle (M1A and other AR types). And, time is also ticking away with respect to the flaming consumption of the propellant. 300 blk shines brightest when its suppressed right? All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. Maybe a greater margin of error for nicking a vital organ as a result of larger bullet expansion. 308 caliber bullets have the greatest range of options of any caliber. These two factors make suppressed supersonic rounds very effective and an attractive choice in confined close quarter environments. If I couldn't suppress or SBR, I probably not even go with another AR. I happen to be one of those people. NDJlODc5Y2JiNmNmNmJjNGExOWVjOTI4NGQ2MDYzOGMwNTkwMzU3MmFmZDM1 Sub Sonic Ammo out of an Unsuppressed 300 Blackout Young and Tactical 3.49K subscribers 213 25K views 3 years ago In this video Trent shoots his 300 blackout to see if it can run sub. If your reloading you shouldn't have to worry about what the manufactures are focusing on with the supersonic. Instead of just yelling at the clouds, I thought we could bring in a few experts in the field of ammunition development and ask them for their thoughts on the matter. So whether you're hunting hogs, punching holes in targets, or just playing pretend in your basement, we aren't here to judge. Before i got a 6.8, a 16" .300 unsuppressed was my primary hunting rifle. Introducing the latest products from the worldwide leader in ammunition. If anything, its the heavier bullets that are more likely to keep going. One reason for its popularity is the supersonic/subsonic option. -----BEGIN REPORT----- The additional bullet weight keeps the rounds from breaking the sound barrier, and gives them as much energy as possible. Due to NFA laws in my home state, two different guns were used for this test. I dont know how many have fired a 5.56 AR-15 carbine inside a room, but its sensory overload. No big surprise guys but Short barrel+weak ammo+ no backpressure=shit reliability ps. 2023 Modulus Arms | 80% Lower Receivers and 80 Lower Jigs. The XTP bullet in Subsonic Handgun has built a world-class reputation for accuracy and stopping power. In keeping with this motif, an AR-15-style bolt carrier works best with subsonic. The difference between subsonic rounds and supersonic rounds, as implied by their etymology, remain in their ability to break the sound barrier determined by how fast the projectile travels. A heavier buffer and spring, or an adjustable gas block, can provide the cushion the supersonic needs to avoid over-function.. No room for a dissertation on gas system operation, but as the gas expands behind the bullet traveling down the barrel bore, an increasingly greater volume is available for the gas to occupy. That's why I have 3. Do yourself a favor and get one you deserve it. Our Price: On the other end of the spectrum, use of a supersonic load like the Federal 120g Trophy Copper at 2100fps, will result in projectile expansion to approximately 1.5x the diameter of the bullet, and greater terminal effect. -moz-user-select: none; The Sub-X bullet used in Subsonic Rifle features a lead core. Nzk5NTZjMWJjMmY4OTNkODk0YTM1MGMxZjZiM2FiYTdiNTIxZjM4MmI0ODhi 80% Arms sells AR-15 and .308 80% Lower Receivers, 80% Lower Jigs and other accessories which allow you to legally build a firearm at home in most states. Here is what I know about full power ammo: Excellent, more than enough variety to make a decision. LE Silencers Science I had read those can cause more fed issue than FMJ in the AR platform. MmI2MDAzY2VkZmQ4MzZiZmU1OWQzZjU2ZDIxMmM4OTBjMGM2NDQ3YWEzNTUz Is 300BLK worth it in supersonic unsuppressed ONLY appl.? Even the SOF guys will still do 99% of their gunfighting with supersonic rounds. OTRlZDE0ZDEyNzgwZjIxZjFlZDdhOGQ3YWVlNWJjZjQyZjg4N2Q0YTQwNDhj That really all has to do with bullet design/bullet engineering. Some have higher or lower cost per round for factory or reloads. Depending on the load, some 300 blackout subsonic rounds are quiet enough to comfortably use without ear protection. Looks like it will be an SR7 with 90T when they hit the well stocked local Class 3 dealer! A 12-gauge slug over-penetrates.. I have found that the best overall approach to subsonic function is to shorten gas system length. Conversely an expanding supersonic bullet will create substantially more trauma than non-expanding supersonic bullets or expanding subsonic bullets. Essentially, all you'd need is an upper receiver with a 300 blackout barrel and you'd be good to go since the 300 blackout magazine is the exact same as normal STANAG/NATO magazines. These are not as common now as they once were, but an AR-15 carrier doesnt have as long of a full-profile section on its body as does the USGI-standard M16-format carrier (which is far and away the most common now). One trick to get reliable subsonic function in a gun thats been built around more ideal supersonic function is lightening up the back end of the system. I cut a couple even with my shorter gas system on the subsonic. The 300BLK is a very capable rifle in the 16 inch configuration and can take any 4 or 2 legged animal that either the 7.62X39 or the 6.8 can in normal shooting ranges of up to 300 yards. If I was not into NFA items I would not own a BLK rifle. border: 1px solid transparent; Y2ZiMWUwMjljYjc2NjMyZDRjOTA0ZTkxMzk2MGEzMWVmMjFmYWVlOTdjZjFm This gun has shot subsonic and supersonic suppressed and unsuppressed flawlessly through 2500 rds min. I really like the FAL adjustable gas system. I see you have some rounds made to expand in this article. 's blog. Please be respectful of others. display: inline-block; .btn:not(:disabled):not(.disabled) { So this brings me to my final points/questions. SILENT AND STEALTHY MjQxYzgwMWFlN2IyYmNlZWI5N2JjZGQ0ZGU1MzQyZmI5MWMwODk1ZjUxYmMw The pistol-length-port location requires the least amount of post-build tuning to get 100-percent reliability. MjI3YjA3MzA4NzgwNTg1ZWFhZDYzZDIwODBiN2U5YzkzNDkwN2NlYzVkNmRl Suppressed .300Blk is under 120db and easily hearing safe. by Quiet Riot Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:13 pm, Post Not my thread, but I think I was just sold in what to do with my resent acquisition. Download the app DOWNLOAD Access features of the Reloading Handbook on your mobile device with the Reloading App. First, supersonic ammunition was tested unsuppressed through a custom AR-15 pistol with a Brownells 10.5-inch .300 Blackout barrel with a 1-in-8-inch twist rate. Save the heavier and stouter parts for supersonic. Heavy for caliber bullets are often used to off-set lack of velocity and still provide great short to medium range performance. ZmFhY2U2NzcyNzJhN2Q2YzJkN2FhYWEwMzYwMDBjOTY0ZmFjMGE1NzMyNWIx .300 Blackout is an intermediate caliber that performs with a better ballistic capability than 5.56x45mm while retaining the same round capacity using a standard M4 magazine. 300blk subs are POINTLESS to run without a can, theyre still loud, less effective and unreliable, with a can yes they are super quiet and badass. Is 300 blk worth it unsuppressed? Bleed off/non restrictive, finger adjustable, battle proven, reliable. It is also great supersonic for hunting. Having said that, that doesn't necessarily mean that a shooter can't enjoy the benefits of reduced muzzel signature just because they can't or won't own a supressor. Post Subsonic 300 Blackout ammo is effective for the former two characteristics but falls short in almost every other category: effective range, terminal ballistics, bullet trajectory and cost efficiency. The industry standard for supersonic ammunition is set at around 1,100 feet per second at sea level under standard conditions. It cracks me up, that the 320 pound, crisco leaking computer chair army speaks of subjects that they "read" on the internet. The preceding is a specially-adapted excerpt from Glens newest book, Americas Gun: The Practical AR15. Whats more, subsonic ammo is a good deal lower pressure than supersonic ammo, which has a SAAMI max limit of 55,000 PSI (most is around 50-52,000); most subsonic loads are running 30-35,000. by 2bad4u2 Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:17 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. by Tom12.7 Fri May 27, 2011 7:58 am, Post I enjoy them just as much as the short ones. Final one was with a 5.56 Ruger American Ranch Rifle. Sign up to receive new product announcements, special offers, and the annual product catalog. by este Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:16 pm, Post Civil? Thanks for the info and well reasoned opinions. Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. Other than to check performance on a chrony or to look for keyholing? This setup will should work excellently with subs and supers, suppressed, suppressed, and any other situation you can throw at it.. Mostly correct. Speaking of adjustable gas blocks, dont run one on a pistol-length system. Gain a deep knowledge of ballistic science and access our improved ballistic calculator. I have an SBR as well in 300BLK which is more fun but when traveling out of state it's easier to just take my 16". by 300Blk Fri May 27, 2011 9:36 am, Post A friend of mine likes to hunt with a 16" 300 blk over his 6.8 when hunting everything from deer, hogs and coyotes. Any bullet thats built to either fragment or readily expand (not the same things but about the same effect) isnt going to get much farther after it meets a solid object. Almost forgot about ammo. If you do plan on shooting suppressed or aiming at targets within short distances then proceed with the 300 blackout platform. 300BLK is the most versatile centerfire cartridge in existence and an excellent HD choice. 300 Blackout Suppressed With Subsonic Ammo - YouTube 0:00 / 1:22 300 Blackout Suppressed With Subsonic Ammo Cory Meals 364 subscribers Subscribe 43K views 5 years ago 300 Blackout Suppressed. The farther down the barrel the gas port is located, the lower the pressure will be by the time the bullet passes the port and the gas enters the port. Ive written thousands of words about its evils and ways to lower it for other applications. It all depends on what you want to do.Tons of 556 brass to roll your ownI like the 300 blackout in the carbine role..16 inch with supersonicsgreat venison and critter getter.I have no desire to spend the cash.and buy the stamp and the can Yeah the whole reason to get a 300BLK is for subsonic rounds to be hearing safe quiet with a suppressor. The backpressure will not be enough to run reliably (if at all), and the accuracy will will also suffer. I dont like running a valve on anything but a rifle-length system. ZDQ4OWNkM2RjMTljNGVkNTc1ZjhhYmNjYzdlY2JhZGU0OTQwY2QzMjM5ZjU0 Unsuppressed, a significant muzzle flash will occur that may hamper low light visibility, the report may cause hearing damage and temporary disorientation. One new winner* is announced every week! Yes. You might get away with it for a subsonic setup as described here, but since its so close to the chamber, the gas is at full fury and will wreck the valve apparatus in short order (flame-cutting). In the review on the MCX from ammoland the author says, "We experimented with a variety of 300 Blackout ammunition. Router Jig Extreme (compatible with any AR caliber). by LYNRDSKYNRD Fri May 27, 2011 8:43 am, Post by 300Blk Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:44 pm, Post While subsonic ammunition surely does have its benefits when it comes to covert operations, close range, and personal defense, this kind of bullet is not ideal for the big game hunter. If not, and you need to hit targets at distances past 3-400 yards then opting to shoot 5.56 NATO instead will save yourself some money. Most subsonic blackout ammo uses a bullet in the 200-grain range, and, of course, .308 diameter. 6.5 or 6.8 either one beats the 300. It may not display this or other websites correctly. How to Assemble and Use the GST-9 Infinity Jig. Whatever you shoot at will be able to know theyre being shot at immediately and they'll react appropriately. Based on my work it's very tricky to get subsonics to cycle a standard-length XCR-L action, even . If I could not go suppressed, I'd pick another caliber. border-radius: .25rem; The XTP bullet in Subsonic Handgun has built a world-class reputation for accuracy and stopping power. Unique powders optimized for subsonic use result in a low flash signature, ideal for either suppressed or unsuppressed performance. I am planning a .300 BLK as soon as the XCR is available, and I am only interested in subsonic/suppressed. I prefer the looks of the Shockwave Blade type brace if you need to do a brace. Even the small .22lr breaks the sound barrier, and gives a small sonic crack. A little edgy. My research turned up the fact that without the ability of the high velocity of a supersonic .300 to transfer hydrostatic shock you will merely be punching .30 caliber rounds through your target. An argument for another day. The 7.62x39mm is another that can be made to be a great subsonic cartridge (but most factory ammo is supersonic). NjZmMjljMGU3ZmYwMTE4YjM1NmVlNzEwZmQ4YjdhN2VhZWEyZWRmM2Y1YmJl Scan this QR code to download the app now. Your access to this site was blocked by Wordfence, a security provider, who protects sites from malicious activity. Range Report: How Good Is the Smith and Wesson M&P FPC 9mm Folding Carbine? [emailprotected], Reduced risk of over penetration from a pass through projectile. transition: color .15s ease-in-out,background-color .15s ease-in-out,border-color .15s ease-in-out,box-shadow .15s ease-in-out; This goes for animals also. document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) Copyright Hornady, Privacy Policy | CCPA Request | Accessibility Policy | Terms of Use, Designed and developed by IdeaBank Marketing. Accuracy is determined by spin stabilization, and 1:8 is sufficient at subsonic speeds for up to 225gr BTHPs; transonic for 240grs. The .300 AAC blackout has the advantage of having a more effective shape for delivering energy, expanding, and tumbling through vital organs, but it's main advantage while subsonic is it's quiet report, and the ability to make multiple hits on target very rapidly. This caliber has used up all the powder at about 9 of barrel, so it really affects carbine length systems imo. You don't have an "issue" with your 300blk if it won't run subsonic ammo UNSUPPRESSED! Products manufactured by 80% Arms carry a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects. So, if you think .45 ACP is a reliable choice for a defensive round, subsonic Blackout beats it. Does some damage with Barnes vor-tx bullets. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. NjZlZTcwZjdmYjA0OTI3OTM0OTcwZmVlOTk5ZjFhOGJhNDRiZTY0MDE4MWJh Discussion about rifles in 300 AAC BLACKOUT (7.62x35mm), hosted by the creator of the cartridge. Performance of 300 Blackout Subsonic meets or exceeds FBI Protocol terminal ballistic test requirements. _hester_ 6 yr. ago Yeah, but have there been measurements taken without a suppressor? There is Barnes RRLP in 300 BLK, though it may end up as LE/Mil only. I dont think thats really a factor. For those 'go loud' engagements you could opt for supersonic rounds to take the ballistic advantage of full power rounds. .btn-warning { Somewhere in south Texas I think makes or sells M1A actions, barrels and other parts. If you do plan on shooting suppressed or aiming at targets within short distances then proceed with the 300 blackout platform. Not sure what diameter gas port it has My Problem - Supersonic rounds = seem to function fine / no problems In fact, SOF Operators have reported shooting terrorists in one room of a house, and not having woken up bad guys sleeping in adjacent rooms. The only issues Ive had with my AAC barrel is THE with cut brass. by bluebird Fri May 27, 2011 1:43 am, Post The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! I hope this was helpful, cheers. So says every major hunting publication and its writers. Subsonic bullets generally boast a lighter recoil than their speedy relatives, and have an added weight coming to around 180-220 grains in a standard .300 Blackout load. 300 Blackout Subsonic Subsonic rounds hold one key advantage, they run really quiet when suppressed. We stand behind all our products and were here to support you. I built a specialty home-defense AR-15 for a recent book project, and that was my choice. Suppressing a supersonic round does a great job of protecting your hearing, but you'll never get the Hollywood effect. From heavy subsonic loads to supersonic rounds, both with and without the silencer attached; we experienced no malfunctions of any kind". The loudest factors from using suppressed subsonic ammunition comes from the sound of the bullet impact and the bolt carrier group cycling back and forth (when using AR platforms). America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Subsonic Success: Getting Good Function From a .300 Blackout, The preceding is a specially-adapted excerpt from, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). Subsonic Handgun utilizes tried-and-true XTP bullets that expand reliably at subsonic velocities. The supersonic and subsonic bullets draw their names from how they each respectively relate to the sound barrier. ODE1ZDM1NjM4Zjc1Yzg1OGZlODViYzdmMGM1Y2RkZWI1NDVhODQxZjI4YmRl There are so many custom bullets and loads being developed. That' I sent an email request to SA with a single question that was never responded to. Subsonic bullets generally boast a lighter recoil than their speedy relatives, and have an added weight coming to around 180-220 grains in a standard .300 Blackout load. This is the ammunition you want to train with, hunt with, and be the most familiar with. We utilize state of the art 5-axis CNC machines to mill all our .308 and AR-15 80 percent lower receivers to incredibly precise tolerances using premium billet aluminum. I agree, but not for some reasons commonly given. 300 Blackout subsonic is one of the quietest rounds to suppress, particularly when fired through a closed breech firearm like a bolt action or single shot rifle. We will promptly replace or repair any product that we determine to be defective. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. 300BLK is great if and ONLY if you are a reloader. For anything larger, or at distance, we would recommend going supersonic. Forget about cut brass. -ms-user-select: none; YTZjMjk4NWM1MTdlNTA0ODc1NTQ5ZmRkODE5MzkwNjAyNmQwZTc0M2RhOWY2 MzEzZWEzN2Y4MzNkYzJlMGFlOGE1Y2Q4ZTA0ZjVhMjEzYTgxNDI4NjAwMGMx I was shooting subsonics, while my suppressor sits in the gun store safe waiting for some schmuck to rubber stamp a form, because they're all that I could find. So if youre set on trying out 300 Blackout yourself, complete a build with your own 80 percent lower receiver today with an easy to use universal. Just recently purchased a pistol upper kit for thr build Im working on. This will add versatility and a broader range of uses for this great platform. Subsonic Blackout has a radically milder blast and report than 5.56 or supersonic Blackout. Besides several Blackouts I shoot with short bbls and suppressed, I also have some 16" rifles. } Notify me of follow-up comments by email. With bullet weights in the 190-220 grain range, and a muzzle velocity below 1,100 FPS, 300 Blackout is one of the best cartridges for shooting subsonic rounds. The .300blk round has skyrocketed in popularity the past decade. Ballistically I agree that the 300BLK doesn't outperform much of anything when it comes to 16" and unsuppressed, but it kills deer out to at least 200 yards just fine, and that's what I want. Reloading lets you use most all of the bullet types from 110 grains to 175 grains or so. From experience the .300blk subsonic is an amazingly fun round to shoot suppressed and it's the only way to shoot it reliably, but it's well worth it! As a comparison, a 230 grain round of Federal JST .45ACP ammunition has a muzzle velocity of 863 fps and has 380 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle when fired from a 1911. by hugegator Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:34 pm, Post Your email address will not be published. However, they let me use my SDN6 that's collecting dust in their safe while waiting for my Form 4 to be approved. Fun as hell and easy to tote. For the love of goodness gentleman, I wish I didnt have to make this post but Ive seen about 10 on this subject in the past week. it ALMOST made sense a year or more ago when all you could find was factory subsonic ammo Graphic design and branding: https://www.facebook.com/VisualGravy. I like 6.5G and 6.8 alot as well, but the mags and bolts are annoying and more cost. Anyway, read through the responses below and let us know your thoughts in the comments section. I forgot to say, 175 grain 3-gun ammo is being loaded right now - but only 10,000 rounds at first, so none will be for sale. .btn { 300BLK is the most versatile centerfire cartridge in existence and an excellent HD choice. When it comes to the 300 Blackout, there are more options for rapid expansion in supersonic rounds than there are with subsonic loads. Factory ammo is unreasonable high, but reloads can be as cheap as 223. Manufacturer #: SUP300BLK (20) UPC #: 020892224483. NzAxZTZjNWI1YTkzYjU4MzU0Nzc0YTU2MjFmMmYyNGQ0OTk3N2ZmN2QzYmZh For the vast majority of applications, supersonic ammunition is the most practical choice, and it has the added benefit of being cheaper as well. Brad Criner, Senior Director Sig Sauer Ammunition. The idea that you can have a single setup of buffer mass, gas port size and gas system length that will handle 28kpsi unsuppressed subsonic loads and suppressed 55kpsi supersonic loads equally well is ludicrous on its face. MGQ3NDgzZjU3MzUxOGM3ZmI4ZGY1NWNkMjkwNDhjZTZkZTU2YjI4MDk3YjU3 There is no noise from the action or any created via the ejection process as noticed in a semi automatic firearm. Been kicking around the idea adding a 300 Blackout into the mix, yet state laws do not allow for SBRs or suppressors. .300 Blackout subsonic is not ideal for medium to long range hunting, as the velocity and kinesthetic shock is greatly lowered from the supersonic. Running subsonics out of a 16" gun and suppressed is almost hollywood quiet. Subsonic rounds have about the same energy on target as a .45 ACP round. Most factory .300 Blackout subsonic loads are a little more powerful than a routine .45 ACP handgun loading, if we're going on (the admittedly incomplete) calculated energy figures. - And the Mode 3 screw allows a varied amount to gas to be used in cycling, and the correct amount of gas (and the setting of the AGB) is dependent on correct cycling, using the procedure outlined on page 35? Thank you for a clear and consisce desciption. For precisely this reason, hunting with subsonic 300 blackout is generally not advised in most scenarios unless youre taking on wild pigs or smaller sized game within short distances. I think that's what OP is after. OWEyN2JmMTE0ZGM2MzkxYjdhZDc1N2EzYzNhOGQzY2I4NDNkNTJkYjI1MDcy The clear advantages of sub-sonic loads are, of course, sound suppression which can conceal both presence & position. Thoughts or ideas? Home defense in its most typical form is about getting yourself and your loved ones off the X. 300BLK comes in two flavors: supersonic and subsonic. Being able to start a fight quietly, and then with a quick change of a magazine, you can have a full-power round. The .300blk sub will likely be slightly louder than a 9mm sub, assuming similar barrel lengths. Hornady Subsonic Ammunition designed for accuracy and performance below the speed of sound now comes in both rifle and handgun loads. There's a big assumption here that everyone can actually own supressors.