0000012438 00000 n By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. black powder side by side deringer And it has no markings, How can a guy find out who makes it?? If the pistol has no visible marks it is almost impossible to determine the manufacturer. It was made in 1980 and has all of the standard proof marks but I don't know who manufactured the rifle. The chart will enable you to determine the date your gun was proved. "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not" - Thomas Jefferson. "I'll help you down the trail and proud to!" 0000067226 00000 n It will make a nice addition to any collection, especially as a companion gun to a rifle chambered for the same cartridge. 6) Piettas logo and name stamp. I think BU decodes to 2004 (you have BZ for both 2004 & 2005), CA for 2006 and CB for 2007. There were no other markings on the rifle. These revolvers are extremely collectible. 0000080946 00000 n Yes, that can be confusing, but we did like the 1860 Henry by the Italian maker better than we did the namesake brands gun. UBERTI ITALY and the serial number. Both these guns are very well made, not junk, both have serial numbers and also say Pat. All the .44s (including the Phantoms) were in the range of 75918 to 75954 and all the .22s (except 75255) were in the range of 75955 to 75985. I find the Uberti's closer to the originals , and the new CNC forged frames appeal to my idea of greater strength & closer tolerances. Our Assessment:This Uberti replica of the Remington Rolling Block pistol is a single-shot pistol chambered for more modern .22 Hornet rounds. The proof marks are described in Table 2. Did that Dawg,nothing.There is a serial number on the receiver right in front of the lever and below the carrier and a proof mark above the carrier.There are two proof marks on the barrel and a roman numeral just in front of the receiver.Nothing on the tangs at all.It had a lever safety on it a onetime and someone took it out.It was said to be a Uberti but it does not have Uberti on it anywhere.I have had 4 Uberti 22s and this one is the only one with out Uberti on the tang.It is the smoothest and you can run it faster than any of the other ones. The Beretta family can trace their gunmaking roots in this region back almost five hundred years. The right side of the octagonal chamber is marked "CAL. I was born there LO these many years ago, but in 1977 I came to the United States, and have enjoyed FREEDOMS such as I never dreamed of as a British SUBJSCT! Hb``a``=P @1630i`@GDTVs(R {g i 23>`.0,p?PA! 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It is in the 2,000 serial range and has GU mark. The only lettering on the gun is on the left side of the barrel and reads BLACK POWDER ONLY-MADE IN ITALY-CALIBER 36. This stands for Armi Chiappa in reference to Rino Chiappa, the companys founder. Behind that were two Italian proof marks. '9+ }`=swrE-OqmU>zAw$aAY@O| revolver, the square with the letters(AE in this case) are only on the bottom of the barrel after the Uberti name and proof marks. any one know who manuf. It is not unusual to find some of these American marked guns on sale here in the UK. OCT. 16. I belong to an on-line forum, called,"1858Remington.com. 0000001989 00000 n Copyright 2023 Aceville Publications Ltd. COLT 1873 BUCKHORN S.A. TARGET (TMR) cal .44 Magnum. Because the availability of 44-40 ammunition choices is fairly tight (MidwayUSA.com lists 10 choices, with only lead bullets, in weights from 200 to 225 grains), we figured if we found an 1860 we liked, wed prefer to have a wider range of loads for it, so we acquired one chambered in 45 Colt (aka Long Colt), for which MidwayUSA.com lists 56 results, in bullet weights from 145 grains to 360 grains in lead, copper, even shotshells. 0000105361 00000 n Pre 60s? Thank you. We were extremely gratified to see a company making such a high-grade version of the old Henry, never mind where in the world its made. C.-{.-~Q~vVW?[.aMF^fV?4J/:50fb0L@w6l=lMaCFnO,ta#ip:xCr3A?Z[Hi6? Type of Finish:Blue, Case Color and Brass. Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. 0000004972 00000 n 0000080589 00000 n The edges between them were sharp enough and, sighting along the flats, we found them to be dead level. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Thats why we dont call the capacity 13+1, as its given on the website. The above manufacturers turn out tens of thousands of firearms each year and most, if not all, of these weapons are copies of those used and made in nineteenth century America. River Junction Trade Co, 312 Main Street, P.O. The gun is beautifully finished and it remains mechanically sound. The barrel pictured is a perfect example as it bears all of the Italian proof (Most are Zoli, and are good. ) We tested mainly with PMC cowboy-type ammo, which is a mild load with a hard lead bullet. These are very scarce and near impossible to find in such fine original condition. Thanks for the info Gaz. We accomplished that with a Sharpie, and that helped our groups. 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If you shoot a reproduction muzzle loading pistol or rifle, the chances are it was made in the Brescia area of northern Italy. 0000006823 00000 n The reason for the missing letters in the sequence is unknown. 0000011024 00000 n 35 0 obj <> endobj Pages, photographs and artwork from this site are the sole property of River Junction Trade Co. LLC, and may not be used or reproduced in whole or in part without written permission. The sights were identical to those found on the Henry Henry, the rear having all the same little cuts, holes, notch contours, elevation slide and markings as on the other rifle. Prior to 1954 the year of proof was stamped on the guns in Arabic numerals, but this new coding system was introduced around the time of the first reproductions. )9/q3YgYHH}c. x4hjF%1I'WVH">^I*Yt} FSYD"}di)IK n!Hhf$=o:k$y}$*&L(\G'zyKdlG?Q\7>>SSV6K#OqDSIpzNh~~ x #=l%l&U ps~31H^$qB^7'0]?Ew#E=9+|uL>k/,xS-7wiN=KqOF` m2; ul_w`N` Lv endstream endobj 36 0 obj 741 endobj 37 0 obj << /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 36 0 R >> stream Thanks. 0000078152 00000 n OCT. 16. 0000052548 00000 n Both use small lettered stamps Cirmarron tends to place the . Year Mark Year Mark Year Mark Year Mark Year Mark Year Mark Year. 0000036564 00000 n The right side of the chamber is marked CAL. 3) Armi San Marco name stamp (1994) I have a.s.m.black powder only cal. Can anyone help? i have a cap and ball pistol with the marking wc on hammer side and a shield with an x in it and 3 stacked balls on the other side. I will always hold a special place in my heart for my great great grandfathers Newhaven Arms 1860 Henry, but my Henry Repeating Arms Co rifle will always hold second to that one hands down no contest. Very nice and very early production. Heres what we found. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments There were no failures to feed, fire, or eject. Again photographs are the first step in identification. 4) The distinctive Uberti logo. 357 MAG." and features several Italian proof marks. stamping on the frame is CMC or CMG not clear. maybe I can get a little more info. 13) Were it not for the proof marks this Uberti could easily be passed off as an original Colt. California recently rushed through legislation making it unlawful to communicate to those under 18 about broad categories of firearms, parts, and accessories. 0000052647 00000 n I have a muzzleloading pistol with IGE on it and says Italy .44 cal. 0000005072 00000 n Aldo Uberti S.r.l. there is no calibre or name on it. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address). 0000039439 00000 n 0000001537 00000 n I am aware of the 1861 Whitney and the Spiller and Burr. A. UBERTI & C. GARDONE V.T. Posted February 18, 2016. (The word Phanton was actually spelled that way on the order.) The Old Model started production in 1861 with the slightly improved New Model Army coming out in 1863 . ix)]'Aa-;O;KGg 6+Rg^vF$^og>XxZaNz:E Looking at these 1860s point by point, we realized we were looking for a rifle that would trump Henrys Henry and it would be no easy task for the Uberti to take down the namesake 1860. H|TMs0+Vcv~$C4=[Yb$9?dowy3YY^TO~&nV;r6gReI LiFZj2C&-zR` In the early days of the Navy Arms / Uberti connection, Gregorelli actually produced the metal parts for the revolvers and Uberti assembled them. And Dixie gun works Inc. On top of the breech area.?? Joseph Rider, Remingtons Chief Designer, modified Geigers design into a pistol in 1866. First Year of Production Navy Arms, 1851 Navy Revolver, Parts for Pierson Ruschetta (PF) 1851 Navy. As a young boy I had the privilege of hunting rabbits with my great grandfathers Henry rifle that belonged to his father and now belonged gs to my Uncle. I hope it's at least a little bit of a lead." and another from oour friend Prarie Dawg: It was a redesign of the Army's Allin Trapdoor rifle. Other side says Palmer brescia Italy. This restriction is made under protest, but we have to do this to comply with Californias infringement on the freedoms of speech and association of the NRA and our members, supporters, and the general public. Both made in 1976 it has markings but no manufacture marks I would like to know who made them ? I understand a lot of Navy Arms guns were not made by Uberti but by other Italian companies. I have often heard it said, more than once by myself, that the markings on these guns could be a little more subtle, especially in the case of an attractive looking piece such as the Uberti Remington New Model army in charcoal blue and case hardened finish. Very nicely finished. The second proof mark is a similar star and circle, slightly larger, above the letters PN. 7) Mark on a recent Euroarms revolver. 0000004778 00000 n According to a web site this is the Italian date code for 1977. Make: Uberti. Cylinder tight when trigger pulled all the way back. There are no chips or cracks. Nit mine but it is just like this one in the link below. These letters will sometimes be found in a circle. %PDF-1.6 % It just seems that a little more care in their placement could result in more acceptability and perhaps more sales to the purists. http://www.powderhombre.com/mbpproofmarks.pdf You must have Adobe or similar software to read pdf files. The crest consists of crossed rifles with bayonets and a hammer and anvil. If this were a copy of an 1873 Winchester, youd have to choose 44-40 (or 38-40) for authenticity, but if youre shooting the 1860 Henry in those matches, it doesnt matter which incorrect caliber you choose. Of course, original Henry rifles were never chambered for anything but the 44 Henry Rimfire, so whether you choose 44-40 or 45 LC for your modern 1860 Henry is of no consequence. I like the Uberti's use of discrete placement of proof marks. I have a 1858 remington new army revolver I purchased at a garage sale. I have .36 caliber 1851 navy model with the markings, black powder only made in Italy on the barrel and the 3 standardized proof house marks on the other side but I dont see any of the Italian makers marks, except for a name of HUBERTUS in a rectangular box. While the stock finish was mighty hard, it had none of the milkiness that Henrys rifle had. 0000004339 00000 n by F.A.R.A; It appears to be a notch or two higher quality in fit & finish to the many such repros of this rifle I've seen over the yearsanyone have knowledge of the maker? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Box 275, McGregor, IA 52157, ~ Ring Us at 563-873-2387 or TOll Free at 866-259-9172. The left side of the frame has Italian proof marks. JavaScript is disabled. Most members even possess Colt Percussion Clones, by Uberti & Pietta.. 0000105108 00000 n This one seems to be an older mfg., very high quality lock action. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. There is no Roman numerals on this 1851. The letter is signed by Maria Laura Uberti of Uberti USA, Inc. and states that these revolvers were made for Colt Firearms as prototypes by my father Aldo Uberti. If you take the grips off there could be a mark on the brass underneath. These are the guns that REALLY, "Won The West!" 0000007017 00000 n 0000050889 00000 n Where can I find them.Got a 22 cal I would like to find out about.1866,from Navy Arms no name or modle. As a result, the NRA is forced to restrict the sending of certain materials and information into California. 0000039738 00000 n But when you close the lever to the firing position, that round is not brought up into battery. 0000007663 00000 n Once this unconstitutional law is struck down or repealed, this restriction will be removed. There will be a third mark alongside these two and this indicates the year that the weapon went through the proof house. 0000050991 00000 n Also included is the origianal cardboard wood grain box and waxed wrapping paper. weight - 7.4 pounds (Carbine), 8.2 pounds (Sporting Rifle) 2006 MSRP - $900. trailer The front sight was also identical in contour to the other rifle, and had a flat-topped blade insert of somewhat shiny metal. I have 1858 Remington in .36 cal and it has pr eie or rp eie Italy b1766 stamp on the bottom of the grip the other marking say it was made in 1972 I was wondering if any body might be able to tell me what company made it if they can email me at . 0000051711 00000 n We did note the edges of just about everything the front gate system, the edges of the magazine cut along the bottom of the rifle, etc. Pietta always has the proofmarks and the datecode on the right side of the frame. Without photographs of all of the marks on the pistol it is difficult to identify - see my reply above. 0000001474 00000 n All the controls worked smoothly, and our range session was most pleasant. H\j0~ Its not as fast to reload as, say, a Winchester 1873, but it does hold lots of ammo. Dear Friends, Overall Condition:The pistol retains about 95% of its metal finish. I have 2 revolvers one 36 the other 31 cal. HMo09..0pl4jub(FZf=~$ABP(XLP Model: . 0000004871 00000 n 0000050678 00000 n The right side of the chamber is marked "CAL. 5) The palm tree logo of Palmetto Arms. February 18, 2016 in SASS Wire. "Subject to the will of the Crown!" Frascarelli. 11) The mark on the left is possibly an Armi San Marco logo on a 1994 pistol. We also tried, but did not record, Remington factory ammo and some handloads. To view prices realized you must be an "Archives Member". It may not display this or other websites correctly. Black Powder Date Codes. 0000013676 00000 n 0000006802 00000 n Another well known name here in the UK is that of Pietta, and their logo is a diamond containing the letters FAP often accompanied by the name F.LLI PIETTA. shooting, hunting, fishing, blacksmithing, CAS, Cars, Traveling http://powderhombre.com/mbpproofmarks.pdf. Englishmen are not CITIZENS, they are SUBJECTS! I find strange that an Uberti gun has no date code. Not all numbers in this range were used. The right side of the frame is marked 04919. 0000039614 00000 n We believe the original Henry rifles (from the 19th century) had blued parts, but there were some finish variations in the 1866 and 1873 rifles that followed it, so we believe its possible some of the original Henrys had case-hardened parts. The right side of the frame is marked . A copy of a telex communication dated September 9, 1986 from Colt Firearms to Aldo Uberti & Co. ordering 65 firearms (five Phanton .44 Mag and 60 SA firearms in .22 and .44 Mag in 4 , 5 and 7 inch barrel lengths). The era of reproduction Western firearms began in the early 1950s when Val Forgett, of the American Navy Arms company, visited this area of Italy in search of a manufacturer who could make a copy of the Colt 1851 Navy revolver. z Sold ~ GREAT DEAL ~ First Year of Production Navy Arms, 1851 Navy Revolver. The wood finish is glossy and perfect. The top of the barrel is marked "A. UBERTI & C. GARDONE V.T. My wife and grand kids and my kids. The cartouche is 3 "R"s each inside the other. The Rifle models have similar cosmetics to the Trapper but have 24.5-inch barrels, one chambered in 44-40 (342390) and our test gun in 45 Colt. Partly because of that problem and partly because of the high price, $2300, we gave the rifle a Grade: C rating. 2405 PrOOF mark CirCa PrOOF hOuse tYPe OF PrOOF and gun since 1856 Birmingham provisional proof for barrels since 1637 London definitive black powder proof for shotguns,muzzle loader barrels 1811-1892 Liege black powder proof for rifles 1897-1923 Liege black powder proof for rifles Hi, Dennis 12) Pedersoli sometimes stamp their name on the inside of the lock. We'll start about there. 0000001338 00000 n This is not one of the standard Pedersoli or Pietta proof marks, nor is it a Uberti proof mark. They are the earliest Navy Arms made. Any thought on the origin of this piece? 35 45 Likewise, many of the Winchester or Sharps rifle clones will have been manufactured in the same area. 0000011515 00000 n Rooster Cogburn. ASM puts that info on the bottom of the frame adjacent to the barrel lug when the datecodes were alpha characters in a rectangle. For all practical purposes, the import of Italian replica cartridge sixguns started in 1962. It looks a lot like an Armi Sport pistol. -Ec]]`iBd[&QE~t|J3Wva64v0-uy6Owi.x1:y14y=l*^>rv^)eO>S^)zy^Qp.6CTZ=_"qU[f!=xKw2"+pMlb/}-g%0_/3LA0G#%gC_`uC/}uEpV:+kk #6. The first proof mark, which appears on all weapons produced in Italy since 1950, is a star within a wavy edged circle (I have seen this described as lands and grooves of rifling) above a crest in a shield. Just wondering what firm F.A.R.A was/is? S/N 7171. 6) Pietta's logo and name stamp. Posted December 23, 2014. The manual had the mumbo-jumbo we mentioned in our earlier report about where the lever ought to be during the loading process, and we again state that it doesnt matter where you put the lever when you load the rifle. It has an AE inside a box which indicates a 1979 manufacturing date. The Trapper 342910 in 45 Colt has an 18.5-inch barrel, a brass frame and buttplate, and a case-hardened lever. Our impression was that this is how the 1860 Henry is supposed to look. In the picture below you can see first the year of manufacture "BM" indicating it was made in 1999. The barrel and cylinder are the usual Uberti black rather than the blue of the originals and the finish is to a high standard, indicating good polishing before the finish was applied. Written and photographed by Ray Ordorica, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. there are other marking but they are not readable. 0000105711 00000 n Could it be one of those? That's your build date. Does it have proof marks? This is one of the first Uberti made replicas that Val Forgett had imported. Code numbers, catalog numbers, model names, calibers and barrel lengths were detailed. There is some pitting towards the muzzle end of the bore. 9) An early Euroarms name stamp. However, the only proof mark I can find that looks like a 'house' proof is on the butt of the gun: a PR where the P and the R are overlapped, right next to the 3-digit serial #. Eho is the manufacturer ? You are using an out of date browser. Top of the barrel says "wesson" right side, looking down range says .50 cal black powder only. There, you should find a roman numeral or two character alphabetical stamp. Uberti offers versions of all three Colt Dragoon revolvers in their line-up and the one we have here is a standard civilian Second model. FREE! Great find and it's worth preserving this very collectible piece. Aldo Uberti S.r.l. I still adore my Uberti but my Henry Original is hands down the superior rifle of the two reproductions. Italy" is on the bottom of the barrels. 1860." 0000004123 00000 n The rifle did not seem to require a break-in period to deburr it, as had the other one. These guns began production in 1958 to be ready for the Centennial of the Civil War. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B 5 per cent of births in the late 1990s were twins . Notably, there are some minor spots of tarnish on the trigger guard and some handling wear at the muzzle. endstream endobj 43 0 obj <> endobj 44 0 obj <>stream 0000003744 00000 n Groups with the PMC averaged 2.3 inches at 50 yards off the bench. From these humble beginnings has grown an industry catering for the needs of shooters, re-enactors and collectors Worldwide. Johnnie Roper,Alias:Gunslinger9378. Then I saw a Henry Repeating Arms 1860 Original and absolutely fell in love. Finally, as a collector of antique weapons, I have to say that I would not like these marks to be omitted entirely. See Attachment 2 for description of a Phantom revolver and Attachment 3 for a copy of this telex. I take it that it was made in 1979, which sounds right, I bought it used in the early 1980's. It is a well made old gun. Apart from a cursory glance I suppose many of you will have paid scant attention to the markings on your modern made black powder reproduction. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 0000005942 00000 n I guess it could be some other kind.Would like it find out who made it. There were ultimately 5 variations of the Remington Rolling Block pistol culminating with the Model 1871. Be advised there are some hot 45 LC loads, such as from Buffalo Bore, that probably ought not to be used in this rifle, certainly not as a steady diet. The "1858 Remington" is a modern collector's term for the Remington New Model Army. Hello. I have one 4 revolving barrel handgun, percussion, double action, looks like 36 caliber. 0000008415 00000 n On the top of the barrel, an inch in front of the rear sight, was "PATENT. 0000062843 00000 n The little button behind the loading lever had distinct stops every 90 degrees, a feature was missing from the previously tested version. Got an older Navy Arms Remington "Zouave" with barrel mfg. 0000005051 00000 n The only marks are "NAVY ARMS CO" on the left side of the frame and on the barrel top flat, on the right side of the barrel "MADE IN ITALY" and the letters "GU" in script. Wedge Issue: Any pointers for getting the wedge out of a Pietta 1851 Navy for the first time. were all sharp enough to cut the hands. 0000064924 00000 n PROOF MARKS: BRITISH PROOF MARKS - ENGLAND, cont. 0000013943 00000 n However, a shoulder on the bullet will never help matters. In fact, if you leave the lever partly open, its possible to shove the carrier down so it can catch the first round loaded. Length of pull - 13 1/8" (to center of buttplate) Approx. "When tyranny becomes law rebellion becomes duty" Thomas Jefferson, http://powderhombre.com/mbpproofmarks.pdf, ORANGE COUNTY REGULATORS,UP THE CREEK GANG ,LIFE MEMBER OF JACKSON HOLE REGULATORS,DOOLEY GANG,PRAYER POSSE, Tusco Long Riders, Brown Township Regulators, Firelands Peacemakers, Ohio Valley Vigilantes, Indiana Black Powder Guild, Wild Bunch Rules Committee, Chisum Cowboys, NRA Life member; Eagle Scout, Circle K Regulators, DbarD Wranglers, Boot Hill Regulators,Matamoros Mavericks.